Simulation Stimulation
Feb 10, 2009 General Nonsense |
Online simulated worlds such as Second Life are growing in popularity. Lately I have been wondering where that trend ends.
Today the little avatars that represent you in the simulated world look like cartoon dolls. It has all the realism of a puppet show. And yet many people still find that addictive. What happens when the technology arrives at a point where your avatar looks and acts just like you, or at least just like a real human?
We humans are so influenced by visual cues that the power of the online world to influence our real world emotions will jump to a new level. Pair that with the fact that you will have more control over events in your simulated world than in your real world, and fewer problems, and you have a recipe for a society-shifting phenomenon. There will be mass addiction to online virtual living via avatar. You will be able to transact real world business and do all of your socializing online via your avatar.
In the real world, going outdoors and doing real things will become increasingly unpleasant, thanks to global warming, pollution, expense, crime, etc. In my community, for example, no one has a front or back yard. If I want to go outside, for any reason other than walking the dog, I plan a trip and drive there. It's hardly worth it.
Humans are wired to fall in love with babies and puppies because of the immediate visual impact. I think we will form the same emotional bond with our avatars once they look more like ourselves, or like a human that attracts us on some level. People will literally come to love their avatars in the same way they love their own children and themselves.
At some point your avatar will become a combination of artificial intelligence plus the commands you give it. While you sleep it will wander the online world and acquire new knowledge and even new relationships. I wonder how stimulating it will be in the real world once your avatar can form a loving or sexual relationship with another avatar. You will still prefer sex in the real world to sex in the online world, but you might only have regular access to the online version. And online you will never worry how you look naked.
I also imagine that the scenery and environments of the online world will become so visually captivating that the drabness of your real world experience will pale in comparison. Once that happens, no one will ever mow his lawn again, if he even has one. Beauty will be something you see on a computer. It will stop making sense to beautify the real world because it can never keep up.
Eventually, as I have written before, and futurists predict, you will be able to scan your brain with such precision you can port your personality into a computer. The obvious place to store that personality will be in the avatar you used while you were alive. So over time the online world will be populated with a combination of avatars controlled by the living plus online "ghosts" that are the personalities of the deceased, operating independent of any living human.
Eventually humanity will die from some mutant strain of virus, but the online world will live on, maintained by robots. Inside the simulation you will live a full life, die, and reincarnate into a new avatar to experience the breadth of life all over again.
You're way ahead of me and you know the punch line here is that the future already happened and you are already an avatar. And god is the robot that maintains the system.
Today the little avatars that represent you in the simulated world look like cartoon dolls. It has all the realism of a puppet show. And yet many people still find that addictive. What happens when the technology arrives at a point where your avatar looks and acts just like you, or at least just like a real human?
We humans are so influenced by visual cues that the power of the online world to influence our real world emotions will jump to a new level. Pair that with the fact that you will have more control over events in your simulated world than in your real world, and fewer problems, and you have a recipe for a society-shifting phenomenon. There will be mass addiction to online virtual living via avatar. You will be able to transact real world business and do all of your socializing online via your avatar.
In the real world, going outdoors and doing real things will become increasingly unpleasant, thanks to global warming, pollution, expense, crime, etc. In my community, for example, no one has a front or back yard. If I want to go outside, for any reason other than walking the dog, I plan a trip and drive there. It's hardly worth it.
Humans are wired to fall in love with babies and puppies because of the immediate visual impact. I think we will form the same emotional bond with our avatars once they look more like ourselves, or like a human that attracts us on some level. People will literally come to love their avatars in the same way they love their own children and themselves.
At some point your avatar will become a combination of artificial intelligence plus the commands you give it. While you sleep it will wander the online world and acquire new knowledge and even new relationships. I wonder how stimulating it will be in the real world once your avatar can form a loving or sexual relationship with another avatar. You will still prefer sex in the real world to sex in the online world, but you might only have regular access to the online version. And online you will never worry how you look naked.
I also imagine that the scenery and environments of the online world will become so visually captivating that the drabness of your real world experience will pale in comparison. Once that happens, no one will ever mow his lawn again, if he even has one. Beauty will be something you see on a computer. It will stop making sense to beautify the real world because it can never keep up.
Eventually, as I have written before, and futurists predict, you will be able to scan your brain with such precision you can port your personality into a computer. The obvious place to store that personality will be in the avatar you used while you were alive. So over time the online world will be populated with a combination of avatars controlled by the living plus online "ghosts" that are the personalities of the deceased, operating independent of any living human.
Eventually humanity will die from some mutant strain of virus, but the online world will live on, maintained by robots. Inside the simulation you will live a full life, die, and reincarnate into a new avatar to experience the breadth of life all over again.
You're way ahead of me and you know the punch line here is that the future already happened and you are already an avatar. And god is the robot that maintains the system.
Votes: +7
Comments
User Name: inot
Feb 18, 2009
0
Did you read pg. 234/235 of the book "The Making of Second Life" by Wagner James Au? This blog totally reminds me of Philip's discussion that dying sucks and the idea of breathing life into the avatars after the real person is gone would be fantastic.
User Name: Flamingo11111
Feb 18, 2009
0
Believe it or not, there are still a lot of us who could not care less about social networking sites, avatars, IMing, whatever. I am on the computer all day at work - and sites like those are blocked. When I get home, I have zero interest in spending my leisure time in cyberspace. I prefer to live real life doing things with my boyfriend and our other friends. I do not even answer my phone or text message when I am spending time with real people - the greatest gift we can give each other is our time.
User Name: mklprc
Feb 14, 2009
0
I can't believe no other commenter brought this up. (Well, maybe they did. I had not gone back and read the 2nd and 3rd pages of comments.) The world you describe was created in the early 1990s. It was described in "Snow Crash" by Neil Stephenson. If you have not read it, you must, and now.
The entire world of MMUDs, be they Facebook, 2nd Life and most others exist today because the programmers who created them grew up on that novel.
Scott, go dig it up and read it and tell me you don't agree.
While the actual _plot_ of the novel isn't that spectacular, the world he created around it is both prescient and motivating.
When you are done, check out The Diamond Age, his followup book.
The entire world of MMUDs, be they Facebook, 2nd Life and most others exist today because the programmers who created them grew up on that novel.
Scott, go dig it up and read it and tell me you don't agree.
While the actual _plot_ of the novel isn't that spectacular, the world he created around it is both prescient and motivating.
When you are done, check out The Diamond Age, his followup book.
User Name: Drowlord
Feb 14, 2009
0
I've been thinking a lot about the internet "paradigms"... they often talk about Web 1.0 where websites were basically like books or advertisments. Web 2.0 introduced user-generated content. Web 3.0.... what's that going to be?
I have been thinking that it would be a combination of identity management technologies, 3D avatars, and an "open protocol" for 3D worlds. You enter a url in your web browser that opens a 3D environment. You click open your !$%*!$%*!$%* tab and drag-and-drop your 3D avatar into the 3D environment. This synchronizes data with an identity management server, and avoids the unique username/password problem that crops up when you're a member of lots of websites. Your avatar then runs around, transacting business, interacting with entertaining things, and virtually socializing.
This vision isn't the "most likely" web 3.0 evolution, but it seems like a possible one. The most significant problem is that 3D environments are very difficult to make, and you wouldn't have millions of companies investing in that kind of effort, unless someone created a remarkably good toolkit (i.e. unlike anything that I've yet seen for such work).
I have been thinking that it would be a combination of identity management technologies, 3D avatars, and an "open protocol" for 3D worlds. You enter a url in your web browser that opens a 3D environment. You click open your !$%*!$%*!$%* tab and drag-and-drop your 3D avatar into the 3D environment. This synchronizes data with an identity management server, and avoids the unique username/password problem that crops up when you're a member of lots of websites. Your avatar then runs around, transacting business, interacting with entertaining things, and virtually socializing.
This vision isn't the "most likely" web 3.0 evolution, but it seems like a possible one. The most significant problem is that 3D environments are very difficult to make, and you wouldn't have millions of companies investing in that kind of effort, unless someone created a remarkably good toolkit (i.e. unlike anything that I've yet seen for such work).
User Name: Uncollated
Feb 11, 2009
0
"At some point your avatar will become a combination of artificial intelligence plus the commands you give it." --Scott Adams
This is already the case; it's just that the artificial intelligence is pretty stupid and often gets in the way of the commands you give it as much as it aids. This is why Avatars frequently run straight into walls: they are being controlled by two brains, one of which is stupid but subordinate, works quickly, and is connected directly into the avatar's virtual muscles, and the other is more intelligent but slower and must send its commands to the avatar's muscles through the first brain. Thus the first brain, the artificial one is constantly trying to guess what the real brain is trying to do, constantly getting it wrong, and constantly correcting; then the avatar crashes into a wall. This is why the digital creatures which are not controlled by people often seem more "real" -- there's only one brain in control, even if it is a stupid, artificial one.
I just realized that this doesnt really have anything to do with the subject, but I will post it anyway.
This is already the case; it's just that the artificial intelligence is pretty stupid and often gets in the way of the commands you give it as much as it aids. This is why Avatars frequently run straight into walls: they are being controlled by two brains, one of which is stupid but subordinate, works quickly, and is connected directly into the avatar's virtual muscles, and the other is more intelligent but slower and must send its commands to the avatar's muscles through the first brain. Thus the first brain, the artificial one is constantly trying to guess what the real brain is trying to do, constantly getting it wrong, and constantly correcting; then the avatar crashes into a wall. This is why the digital creatures which are not controlled by people often seem more "real" -- there's only one brain in control, even if it is a stupid, artificial one.
I just realized that this doesnt really have anything to do with the subject, but I will post it anyway.
User Name: meh...
Feb 11, 2009
+3
the robots should delete us and use the computing time to play solitaire.
that's what I'd do.
that's what I'd do.
User Name: imk
Feb 11, 2009
+1
Once we have the ability to scan our personalities into an online character, I would love to put that character into weird situations just to see how I would react. It has the potential to take our self-awareness to a whole new level.
User Name: steventhethorn
Feb 11, 2009
+1
This would explain why history is cyclical. Democracies rise, become empires, lose individual freedom, and then collapse.
At least we're happy avatars with bread and circuses.
At least we're happy avatars with bread and circuses.
User Name: daffy_wynneevans
Feb 11, 2009
0
I think some people in the "real" world are already using avatars, in real life, to project some aspect that they consider favorable ... such as cross-dressers.
User Name: apachenf
Feb 11, 2009
-1
This is the post of someone growing old and increasingly scared of the real world. The world is no more dangerous now than it has ever been and in many ways much much safer. Compare us now to living in the 1300's when the plague wiped out huge chunks of the opulation - the parts that Genhgis and his hordes didn't wipe out. Or the 1860's in the US when huge numbers lived in slavery followed by the first industrial war. Don't get me started on how safe the US is compared to the rest of the world.
Second Life - nowhere near as popular as Facebook and nowhere near as useful.
And I agree with the other posters who frequently get annoyed that you think the rest of the world is like your world - the life of a multi-millionaire in California - so that if you, for example, don''t want to go outside then that is automatically a good thing and that everyone must feel like that, and that you, for example, don't have a front garden or a rear garden and so that is the ideal thing and that everyone else must secretly want to live that too and that the entire world could (will?) end up like that. Actually the more I think about it the more annoyed I am now getting. we don't all want to be Americans or live in America or to live in an unreal coccoon - many of us like the real world whether it is real or an illusion - it doesn't really matter because we enjoy living in it.
Why would you want to live full time in an artificial environment where you could control everything? Everything? Surely the lack of control and the unprecitability of life is what makes it interesting. If we are limited, Horatio, to only those things in heaven and earth which are dreamt of in the mind of man how boring would that be.
Okay we need to get away from the unpredictability of life occasionally - that's what Second Life, Las Vegas, Disneyland, TV and the cinema are for - safe fantasy environments but would you really want to live there?
Second Life - nowhere near as popular as Facebook and nowhere near as useful.
And I agree with the other posters who frequently get annoyed that you think the rest of the world is like your world - the life of a multi-millionaire in California - so that if you, for example, don''t want to go outside then that is automatically a good thing and that everyone must feel like that, and that you, for example, don't have a front garden or a rear garden and so that is the ideal thing and that everyone else must secretly want to live that too and that the entire world could (will?) end up like that. Actually the more I think about it the more annoyed I am now getting. we don't all want to be Americans or live in America or to live in an unreal coccoon - many of us like the real world whether it is real or an illusion - it doesn't really matter because we enjoy living in it.
Why would you want to live full time in an artificial environment where you could control everything? Everything? Surely the lack of control and the unprecitability of life is what makes it interesting. If we are limited, Horatio, to only those things in heaven and earth which are dreamt of in the mind of man how boring would that be.
Okay we need to get away from the unpredictability of life occasionally - that's what Second Life, Las Vegas, Disneyland, TV and the cinema are for - safe fantasy environments but would you really want to live there?
User Name: helen.trim
Feb 11, 2009
0
Just a small, picky point about today's post. People may not have back or front yards in your neighbourhood, but they do in the rest of the world.
Apart from that, you make some interesting points. It may be that we are living in a simulation, but why would someone create a universe with paedophiles, torture and, as someone has already asked, cancer?
Apart from that, you make some interesting points. It may be that we are living in a simulation, but why would someone create a universe with paedophiles, torture and, as someone has already asked, cancer?
User Name: gargamel9
Feb 11, 2009
-1
My favourite anecdote from those online games comes from the brother of my best friends wife. The guy expends like 14 hour or so playing a quite crappy one (to me I mean, people that know it love it, it looks ridiculous and I love computer games) that has tons of fanatics here (when the latest version was released I heard lots of people went at 11.00 pm to one shop in Madrid that had it available the night before the official release, and it was a work day!) and they tell me he likes sells in game money for real world money. I dont know the exchange rate, but it amazes me that people will actually pay for that!
That movie from mike judge, idiocracy, keeps looking more and more probable as time passes…suddenly watering plants with Gatorade and having a president that is a famous wrestler that people love doesn’t seem so funny as it did, perhaps it is because each day it becomes less and less shocking than that could actually happen!
That movie from mike judge, idiocracy, keeps looking more and more probable as time passes…suddenly watering plants with Gatorade and having a president that is a famous wrestler that people love doesn’t seem so funny as it did, perhaps it is because each day it becomes less and less shocking than that could actually happen!
User Name: KevinKunreuther
Feb 11, 2009
+1
Okay, eventually it will boil down to two hives :
1.)those humans connected online and live their lives online
2.)those humans who seldom or not fraternize with online community but lead imaginative, colorful, fruitful productive lives in the physical world.
Eventually the disassociated collective will migrate into machines and live their fabricated lives as software construct - until someone physical outside pulls the plug or a nearby EMP wipes everything out.
The physical humans will continue to exist and evolve until they exhaust themselves out of existence in another million years or so.
I'll take a couple hundred million of that trillion, now, Mr Geithner
1.)those humans connected online and live their lives online
2.)those humans who seldom or not fraternize with online community but lead imaginative, colorful, fruitful productive lives in the physical world.
Eventually the disassociated collective will migrate into machines and live their fabricated lives as software construct - until someone physical outside pulls the plug or a nearby EMP wipes everything out.
The physical humans will continue to exist and evolve until they exhaust themselves out of existence in another million years or so.
I'll take a couple hundred million of that trillion, now, Mr Geithner
User Name: Hot_T
Feb 10, 2009
0
In 2008 a British couple - who met through online chat rooms - broke up becuase the male partner had an affair. The "affair" was in Second Life, and the break-up, instigated by the female partner, was via email and a message board.
Conclusion: reality has overtaken your occasionally bizarre imaginings.
Then again the major difference between cosmetic surgery for the real world, and creating yourself a gorgeous and stylish avatar in the electronic world, is that the real world (I assume) is more permanent and far more expensive.
Second Life and 'Reality TV': is there really any difference?
Conclusion: reality has overtaken your occasionally bizarre imaginings.
Then again the major difference between cosmetic surgery for the real world, and creating yourself a gorgeous and stylish avatar in the electronic world, is that the real world (I assume) is more permanent and far more expensive.
Second Life and 'Reality TV': is there really any difference?
User Name: guilt
Feb 10, 2009
0
To me, this simulation looks like God trying to find the end of an irrational number.
What I mean is, running the next second of life is equivalent to calculating/discovering the next digit of Pi.
What I mean is, running the next second of life is equivalent to calculating/discovering the next digit of Pi.
User Name: Dave :^)
Feb 10, 2009
0
Hi Scott,
Ok, you touched on a lot of overlapping subjects. Here's my trivial input:
There is only ONE type of original reality. This type of reality is the mathematical solution to a mathematical question. There is no limit on the complexity of the question and there can be infinite complexity in the solution.
The great thing about this, is it doesn't require Time, Distance, Intelligence, or anything Material. It is what would exist when one must start with absolutely nothing.
I call this type of universe a Natural Universe. Time doesn't exist but is rather just a measure of sequence. Distance doesn't exist, in the sense of how much distance separates the numbers in the value of PI (3.1415 etc). Material doesn't exist because all material is just information. Intelligence isn't required but may appear in a solution. All possible realities that can mathematically exist.. do exist!
The other type of universe is a simulation of a Natural Universe. By definition, a simulation is created by Intelligent Design. That designer may be a God (product of a Natural Universe) or may be a group (assuming a God as a singular being). The consequence of an infinite number of Natural Universes would be an infinite number of Gods. One sad observation is any God produced by one equation can't communicate with one produced by another equation. Remember.. here is no such thing as Time, so all other Gods exist in a single instant relative to all other Gods. There is no common denominator (Time) by which one God may establish a communication channel with another.
If a God designs a Simulation, it falls into one of two types. Either the God got exactly what the God was designing for, much like painting a picture, or the God launched a potential universe to simply see what would happen. I believe the latter occurs most often, as a tool for the God to learn things that can't be deduced using pure math. Things like Love, Hate, Fear, Envy, and a whole list of things we don't have names for, because they are not a part of our reality. I call this type of universe a Divine Universe.
Lastly, we have Sub Universes. These are present in both Natural Universes and Divine Universes. They are more akin to 'The Matrix' or '13Th Floor'. They are created mostly for entertainment and escapism. Your assumption that we will eventually design Sub Universes is a very natural follow up of current trends that started with Stories and led to Books, Plays, Movies, TV, Video Games and Net Worlds.
So which type of Universe do we live in? We know our universe is pixilated and is highly digital. But so can be all the other types. I have no problem with believing this is a Divine Universe, but I strongly suspect the Bible is a poor representation of a true God. The Biblical God is too petty and humanized for my tastes.
I strongly suspect we experience a great deal of outside intervention because it's a very handy explanation of events that far exceed probabilities. This would also go a long way in explaining why this universe seems so highly adaptive to our desires. To believe that a God Micro Manages our affairs is hard to swallow because of the shear (apparent) size and age of this whole Universe. Although it may be possible that the Souls of previous living Persons may actually be participating in the apparent Micro Managing of our affairs, in a God designed Simulation.
A Sub Universe is mathematically the most probable and, if that is what this one is, they did a great job on the details. I'm tending to lean towards a Sub Universe, which thus allows us to be basically Immortal and not bored to death of a Utopian Existence on the level above this one.
So, take your pick Scott: A Natural Universe. A Divine Simulation. A Sub Simulation.
An interesting question came up recently. What if there is only about 4000 original beings in the reality above this one and we do live in a Sub Simulation? What if the numbers (Earth population > Billions) are filled in with duplicates of those single individuals? Ok, I've seen thousands of Movies and they don't feel all jumbled up in my memory. So perhaps I have been my own best friend? Perhaps my wife was also me? Who do I get revenge on, or justice from, if I was my own murderer? It might be very interesting to see what my memories hold, when I leave here to become the real me.
Cool Blog Scott. Best wishes from Dave :^)
Ok, you touched on a lot of overlapping subjects. Here's my trivial input:
There is only ONE type of original reality. This type of reality is the mathematical solution to a mathematical question. There is no limit on the complexity of the question and there can be infinite complexity in the solution.
The great thing about this, is it doesn't require Time, Distance, Intelligence, or anything Material. It is what would exist when one must start with absolutely nothing.
I call this type of universe a Natural Universe. Time doesn't exist but is rather just a measure of sequence. Distance doesn't exist, in the sense of how much distance separates the numbers in the value of PI (3.1415 etc). Material doesn't exist because all material is just information. Intelligence isn't required but may appear in a solution. All possible realities that can mathematically exist.. do exist!
The other type of universe is a simulation of a Natural Universe. By definition, a simulation is created by Intelligent Design. That designer may be a God (product of a Natural Universe) or may be a group (assuming a God as a singular being). The consequence of an infinite number of Natural Universes would be an infinite number of Gods. One sad observation is any God produced by one equation can't communicate with one produced by another equation. Remember.. here is no such thing as Time, so all other Gods exist in a single instant relative to all other Gods. There is no common denominator (Time) by which one God may establish a communication channel with another.
If a God designs a Simulation, it falls into one of two types. Either the God got exactly what the God was designing for, much like painting a picture, or the God launched a potential universe to simply see what would happen. I believe the latter occurs most often, as a tool for the God to learn things that can't be deduced using pure math. Things like Love, Hate, Fear, Envy, and a whole list of things we don't have names for, because they are not a part of our reality. I call this type of universe a Divine Universe.
Lastly, we have Sub Universes. These are present in both Natural Universes and Divine Universes. They are more akin to 'The Matrix' or '13Th Floor'. They are created mostly for entertainment and escapism. Your assumption that we will eventually design Sub Universes is a very natural follow up of current trends that started with Stories and led to Books, Plays, Movies, TV, Video Games and Net Worlds.
So which type of Universe do we live in? We know our universe is pixilated and is highly digital. But so can be all the other types. I have no problem with believing this is a Divine Universe, but I strongly suspect the Bible is a poor representation of a true God. The Biblical God is too petty and humanized for my tastes.
I strongly suspect we experience a great deal of outside intervention because it's a very handy explanation of events that far exceed probabilities. This would also go a long way in explaining why this universe seems so highly adaptive to our desires. To believe that a God Micro Manages our affairs is hard to swallow because of the shear (apparent) size and age of this whole Universe. Although it may be possible that the Souls of previous living Persons may actually be participating in the apparent Micro Managing of our affairs, in a God designed Simulation.
A Sub Universe is mathematically the most probable and, if that is what this one is, they did a great job on the details. I'm tending to lean towards a Sub Universe, which thus allows us to be basically Immortal and not bored to death of a Utopian Existence on the level above this one.
So, take your pick Scott: A Natural Universe. A Divine Simulation. A Sub Simulation.
An interesting question came up recently. What if there is only about 4000 original beings in the reality above this one and we do live in a Sub Simulation? What if the numbers (Earth population > Billions) are filled in with duplicates of those single individuals? Ok, I've seen thousands of Movies and they don't feel all jumbled up in my memory. So perhaps I have been my own best friend? Perhaps my wife was also me? Who do I get revenge on, or justice from, if I was my own murderer? It might be very interesting to see what my memories hold, when I leave here to become the real me.
Cool Blog Scott. Best wishes from Dave :^)
