When I heard that Osama used his own wife as a human shield, I assumed I was hearing a CIA-concocted story. It smelled wrong because it was too movie-like. Portraying Osama as a coward was the perfect way for the CIA to put a damper on Al Qaeda recruiting. We've since learned that Osama didn't use a human shield.

When I heard that our plan was to capture Osama alive if practical, I chuckled to myself. I'm not a Navy SEAL with a hundred operations under my belt, and even I would have blown Osama's head off if I thought he had enough moisture in his body to spit in my general direction. The last thing the United States needed was a trial. Now we know Osama wasn't blazing away with a machine gun in each hand. It was more of a "reaching for something" situation. And as you know, the very best time to consider reaching for a weapon is about half an hour after your secret lair has been attacked.

When I heard that Osama's hideout was a luxurious million-dollar villa, I kept wondering why the only video footage I kept seeing was a Pakistani crack house full of garbage. Since then we have learned that a better estimate for the home's value is $250K. I assume that's mostly for the land. The original story of the million-dollar mansion was probably a CIA invention to make Osama look like a hypocrite.

When I heard that waterboarding gave our intelligence folks the information they needed to eventually connect the dots and find Osama, I thought that seemed a convenient defense for past deeds. Now it seems that there's no way to know if other methods of interrogation would have yielded the same results.

When I heard that the SEALS endured an intense 40-minute fire-fight while sustaining no casualties, I wondered why the terrorists were so bad at aiming. Today we learn that there was only one armed combatant.

You might wonder how all of these rumors got started.  My guess is that the lies were concocted in advance of the mission. The original plan involved killing or capturing everyone at the site who might have been a witness. Had we done that, the CIA could have controlled the story long enough for the fake facts to become common knowledge around the world. The lies would have been entirely justified, militarily speaking, if they had the impact of making Al Qaeda look bad and the United States look good. That's exactly the sort of thing we pay the CIA to do. I hope that was the plan. If it wasn't, it should have been.

Perhaps where things went wrong is that after losing a helicopter, the SEALS couldn't evacuate all of the witnesses. Remember the famous picture of the President in the Situation Room with all of his top advisors. Imagine how busy they were right after the mission, and how many people would need to talk to how many other people to come up with one unified story of events once the original set of lies became infeasible. It would have been nearly impossible to coordinate all the stories. I imagine that one faction in the government favored going with the original fake story, perhaps because the witnesses would not be credible. Maybe another faction assumed the truth would get out, so it was better if it came from the government first.

Given the slow leak of truth, I wonder what other surprises are in store. Remember that all of the fake facts so far had a whiff of hard-to-believe and a bit too convenient. None of the revelations have been complete surprises. So what do you predict will be the next fact we learn wasn't exactly true?

For this discussion, I'd like to take off the table the question of Osama's burial at sea. For the sake of security, let's all agree that the body was handled with religious sensitivity. This was a brilliant way to separate the United States' intentions about Islam versus the terrorists. So if you don't mind, let's not start any rumors about the accuracy of that part of the story.

I'd like to focus on the widely assumed complicity of Pakistan's government. The story goes that it would be impossible for the world's most wanted terrorist to be "hiding in plain sight" so near a Pakistani military facility. The truth is that I could have kept Osama in a guest room in my own house for five years and no one would have known it, as long as I controlled who had access to the house. None of Osama's neighbors knew they lived next to the world's most wanted terrorist.  How would the army facility down the road observe more than the neighbors did?

While it is likely that elements within the ISI have been helpful to various terror groups, it isn't likely that the president of Pakistan, whose own wife was murdered by Al Qaeda, was helping Osama hide. Nor is it likely that many within the ISI knew where Osama was, given the size of the reward for his capture and the risk of letting too many people in on the secret. Our government gains an advantage by pressuring Pakistan to step up their efforts on the war on terror. This embarrassment is exactly the sort of leverage we need. And best of all, Pakistan can't prove a negative, so there is no chance that they can prove they didn't know where Osama was.

Then there's the question of the live video feed to the Situation Room that allegedly went dead just before the SEALS did something that you wouldn't want your elected officials to see. And if they did see it, you wouldn't want your public to know that there's a video of a SEAL killing an unarmed Osama. That was a mighty convenient time for a technical failure.

How about the release of the dead Osama photos? That was never going to happen. You'll see the pictures in a year or two when the emotional impact has dissipated.

What else about this story smells wrong to you?
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May 18, 2011
So what would it look like if a small faction within the ISI knew where Bin Laden was? Eventually someone would stop by the US Embassy and tell them that they would like the reward, please, and that Bin Laden's address is "the Hideout, 52 Al Quaeda Way, Abbootabad." Then the US would go in with a bunch of seals and wake up the big guy. Afterwards they would put it about that they had internal analysis, tip-offs about a courier, satellite analysis etc. And that nice Mr Hamad moves into one of those foreclosed mansions in Miami and his kids all get bmws.
+10 Rank Up Rank Down
May 11, 2011
I knew this was a pack of lies from the minute they reported he was killed by SEALS. What did they do, flap him to death with their flippers?? There was another ridiculous cover up earlier in the year that claimed some terrorists were killed by black hawks.
(Its these kind of blatant lies that made me decide to quit reading when I was 7).
May 10, 2011
I find it kind of funny that everyone is all mixed up in the facts of OBLs death. To be honest, I would love to know what happened too, but I'm not going to get angry at the government for streatching the truth.

I belive that there are many things that the public should not be aware of. The specifics of how the operation was conducted on a step-by step basis is one of them. Sure I would LIKE to know what happened, but I dont NEED to know. The government should keep certain secrets from the public in order to ensure their safety. If we knew how the SEALs operated and how they structured all of their missions, all of our enemies would know how to stop us. And it's not just that. Other things like the names of undercover operatives and what technology we're using or developing.

I think that the goverment needs to keep secrets from us to keep us safe because we can't be trusted with the truth. How do you know your co-worker is not really a terrorist? Sure it's unlikely, but you can never really know.

Now what I think the government should do, is figure out exactly what the public should and should not know. Our government should get better at this because all of the changing facts blatantly shows that the government is lying to us, which looks bad to alot of people who don't realize that it's for our own protection.
May 9, 2011
Just got done digesting what I saw on 60 minutes today..I had trouble keeping it down but fought the bulimic urges. Two immediately obvious lies...The photos and invading a sovereign nation. But before I do I want to say that this is not just about scary boogie men hiding in "million dollar" crack houses. It's about what kind of world we want to live in. When you look at the justifications for torture seeping out around the edges and add the Patriot act you might be a little concerned. Also, Google 60 minutes of deception. This video shows how Mike Wallace on 60 Minutes used deceptive editing and ignored vital evidence to help Clinton get reelected...Clinton went on to eliminate the Glass Steagall act which is a major part of the financial situation world wide...and he still gets 300000 dollars a night to speak/lie to people.
The photos...I said it in a previous post and I'm gonna say it again. They release gory photos and pull them when they realize the public spotted the fakes. Then they tell us that they don't want to release them because they are too gory. Our government is either full of liars or they are incompetent..and I don't know which is worse but both are unacceptable. This is your brain...this is your brain on lies.
Next..BHO says he was concerned about invading a sovereign nation. WTF! Thousands of drone attacks and CIA contractors running around and you are worried about Pakistan's rights!? I'm not that stupid. Stop insulting our intelligence..you aren't even worried about our border..terrorists or not. Look, it is possible that Obama actually believes all this. After all the CIA now employs 850000 independent contractors and large parts of the government remain untouched when a new President comes and goes. The independent actions of the CIA helped JFK decide to eliminate that department...which would certainly would have prompted their involvement in the military style coup known as the JFK Assassination.
Let's face the facts..the conspiratorial view of history is the correct view. If you disagree then your view of history is limited to what we were taught in high school and you've got a major reading assignment ahead of you. Your ignorance or lack of will help determine the course of history...and the life you save may just be the one you care about. Please pull your head out of your butt, wipe the crap from your eyes and stand up for the only thing that separates this country from all the rest..our constitutional republic. PzOut
+2 Rank Up Rank Down
May 8, 2011
The major difference between the two celebrations of death was that one involved the demise of thousands of innocents. These people were not combatants or engaged in anything more threatening than going to work on a regular business day.

The other death, Bin Laden's, was that of a self-confessed terrorist and mass murderer. Big difference, IMHO.

That said, we also need to realize that there were a lot of innocents also killed by the Western forces in the search for Bin Laden/war on al-Qaeda. Is it okay because we don't cheer when that happens, but instead say "Oopsie, our bad!"?

Maybe with all these former Western-supported "leaders" being deposed in the Middle East and Africa, we could start a new era that involves letting people choose their own leaders without outside interference based on other countries' self-interests.

I'm looking out the window in case pigs are flying by at this very moment.

May 7, 2011
Now that we..April25 and now I...are moving this to morality...let's say it"s the immorality of our deeds that incites the very actions we deplore. I will take this moment to admit I am a huge fan of Dr. Ron Paul. He, and the CIA have said that the reason we are attacked by terrorists is that we have done things over in the mid east to incite them. Iran and operation Ajax where we deposed a democratically elected leader, reinstated the Shaw because he gave us oil cheaper and created their secret police SAVAK. This was all a MI6/CIA operation for oil and had nothing to do with national security... until they took our embassy personnel hostage.
How would we like it i some group with no loyalty to the Constitution removed our President and replaced him with their puppet? Well..guess what..it did happen here...JFK..A military coup with a military style execution...shot in the head. And not by Lee Harvey Oswald. How did we like that? Obviously, we loved it. So much so in fact that we keep electing Presidents that act like Johnson ever since.
We do not have a King and we don't want a President that acts like one. Realize that Sirhan Sihan was not a Muslim. Yes his mother was from Pakistan but they were Christians.
Maybe if we stop killing innocent people they will stop trying to kill us..assuming that they do..which I don"t. 911 hijackers..learned how to/not to fly here...yet we are not bombing Florida.
Being patriotic and supporting our troops means staying loyal to the Constitution and keeping our troops out of harms way. Maybe that is why Ron Paul received more political contributions from military personnel than ALL other Republican candidates COMBINED in the 2008 race.
While I don't believe the Earth has a fever...I do believe we have a massive infection. And if we don't take the right medicine our Constitutional Republic will die.
Bin Laden..right..the scary boogie man is dead. What form of fear mongering will be tried next. More Americans believe in ghosts than man made global warming. I've seen no conclusive evidence of either.
We are lied to about "consensus". Yet their are 850 peer reviewed papers that do not support that view. And every day we are hammered with global warming lies by the Associated Press and Reuters both owned by the same people..The Rothchilds. The motive..to convince you that you need to die or the planet will. Don't believe that? Google the Georgia Guidestones and you will.
My point is..stop believing your government loves you and tells you the truth. Why would they care about you when we have voting machines that we won't let them use in Iraq and a software engineer
from Diebold testified that he wrote the code that flips votes. Don't believe it? Google it. It's on youtube. So you can see why I don't automatically believe whatever the so called officials say..like jet fuel burning hot enough to vaporize the plane that hit the Pentagon. I am not that stupid! Are you?
+1 Rank Up Rank Down
May 7, 2011
Remember how furious the West was to see people in the middle east laughing and celebrating when the twin towers collapsed. And people said "How can they be so crass to celebrate death, and to do it in front of the TV cameras".

And this week we see Americans laughing and celebrating over the death of an unarmed man, who was effectively self-jailed in a compound for the past 5 years. It doesn't matter who he is, or what he's done - it's crass to celebrate death, even the death of an enemy. Celebrate at home, at work, away from the cameras. You just made another hundred or so terrorists to replace him. Compassion - even only pretended compassion - might have healed a few wounds.

No matter how much Pakistan was involved, they had to know nothing about either Osama OR the raid. They have a country divided in support of each faction. Better to be thought dumb, than admit the truth and be killed as traitor (by the locals or by the US). In time I think you'll find out they were perfectly aware of both.
May 7, 2011
I would like to say that all the posts I have read on this site are noticeably more intelligent than what I have seen else where...excluding what I post here of course.
I've been called a Birther...a Denier...a Deather..and my favorite, a 911 Truther, which by default makes those who don't question the Official Government Conspiracy Theory: "911 Liars" which is in someway considered to be preferable...right up there with "Labeler"...go figure.
When the MSM does the labeling, it reminds me of "I think they doth protest too loudly" by which I mean they attack most aggressively when they don't want you to tell the truth about certain hot button issues.
Watch The Jessica Lynch Story to see how Jerry Bruckheimer worked for the Pentagon to craft that putrid piece of poopaganda.
Then check out Wag the Dog and The 60 Minutes Deception to see how Mike Wallace covered up the crimes of Bill Clinton to save his reelection.
And Dark Side of the Moon documents Stanley Kubricks work with the Nixon Whitehouse to produce all the "moon footage" on a soundstage in England. Includes a rare reunion with Kissinger, Rumsfeld and others as they tell their story. The older I get the more I realize how contrived our realities are.
Remember...politics is showbiz for ugly people..and with the great face I have for radio it's a wonder why I never ran for office!
May 7, 2011
You have succinctly summed up what many people here in the UK are thinking. Too many things don't fit. For a very short time, a picture of OBL's dead head did appear on the website of one of our national newspapers but was withdrawn with no comment very quickly.
May 7, 2011
In April 2002, over nine years ago, Council on Foreign Relations member Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, who served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, and James Baker, said that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months”.,
On May 3 2011, he was interviewed again and repeated what he said 9 years ago.
There is no where near enough room to report on everything he said. There isn't even enough room to list this guy's bio. I suggest you do as his qualifications are amazing. Just a hint..this is the real life Jack Ryan played by Harrison Ford in Patriot Games. In the most incredible interview I have ever heard, he said OBL died from marfan syndrome in December of 2001. Madelin Albright, Walter Chronkite and John Kerrys wife found out that the Bush admin. was keeping it quiet to use as a faked capture at a later date to boost his approval rating prior to reelection. In 2003 Albright warned Bush that she knew so Bush dressed up in a flight suit, hopped in a two seater and a navy pilot landed him on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln where he declared "Mission Accomplished" and then asked if anyone had any blow.jk
With OBL on ice-a literal poopsicle-this "get out of jail" card would come in handy when Obama's approval rating accurately depicted what a worthless replay of War Criminal Bush this LINO-liberal in name only- had proven himself to be. And then RINO Trump took a dump on the Bozo in Chief's concealed records prompting a defrost of leftovers. Of course, Government employees appear to be contractually obligated to shoot themselves in the foot so the WH released a faked photo of OBL, then pulled it and now say the real one is too gory..which did not stop them from releasing the fakes which were gory as well..but somehow are not too gory...especially if you know they are fake before you look.. Whatever...
In addition, Dr. Pieczenik threw almost every Neocon in the Bush admin under a bus regarding 911 and stated that he was ready to go before a judge and testify against them on war crimes plus identify the General that can corroborate his story.
Now, I am not creative enough to make this stuff up..So go to youtube and look for Alex Jones show May 3rd 2011 before you go spouting the Government's Conspiracy Theory with no supporting evidence in place of historical record.
Let me close by saying that in all my research I have found few real acts of terrorism attributable to those accused. In any case the war on terror does not address the motivational element which is the virgins Jihadist martyrs are promised. So, we really only need to make sure we hose everyone BEFORE they die. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
May 7, 2011
The leaders of PKK (Kurds), Shining Path (Andean Indians), and 17N (Greek Marxists) all surrendered alive and provided intelligence. Probably so did OBL.
Otherwise, why a SEAL raid instead of a smart bomb?
+8 Rank Up Rank Down
May 6, 2011
I read one comment stating that history is written by the victors. It may have been a lot like that in the past but as time goes by we are in ever closer contact with everyone else via ubiquitous cameras, blogs, and all other manner of e-communication and we are seeing an increasing confusopoly of news. What used to be taken for fact and was broadly verified by the few other new organizations can now be contradicted by many other 'news' sources. Add the blogs to this picture and you've got confusion.
May 6, 2011
One thing to remember...the first news reports that you hear on a big story are probably going to be incorrect. This happens regularly and it takes a few days for the real story to shake down. In the rush to get the news out, the media (and the internet) will go with anything they think they have. This problem is more pronounced when the story is about the 'Black or Secret' world and is being leaked different people in the White House.

In the case of Osama Bin Laden, we know two things for sure:
1) The White House shot him in the head.
2) The White House then keeps shooting themselves in the foot.
+15 Rank Up Rank Down
May 6, 2011
This, like every other life event, smells like whatever you want it to smell like... As with the bucket theory of recent past you'll simply believe what you like. As George Carlin said, ever notice how anyone that drives slower than you is a moron and anyone who drives faster is a maniac? Boils down to my perception is correct and you're all nuts.

Enjoy proving yourselves.
May 6, 2011
Considering how the story keeps changing, like someone say Obama signed an executive order to kill OBL the other day, I'm not sure what to say smells wrong because I don't know what the story really is. I've lost track of all the changes.

So right now, the only thing I can say for sure that smells is our government's inability to tell a simple story without bungling it.
+2 Rank Up Rank Down
May 6, 2011
"risingstarip" is not alone in the theory that Mr. Bin Laden may still be alive. The CIA, and indeed -
the government is no stranger to illusion and manipulation of the American public's viewpoints.
I grant that all the hoopla about the "death" seems great, but I can't help but wonder if we want it to be so "too much"? Capturing Mr. Bin Laden and submitting him to enhanced interrogation should have been the real goal. Lots has been invested in lives, money and time in this event, and to relegate it to a simple "head shot" seems like a poor investment (IMHO). There is just too much uncertainty about this to settle for the simple explanation. Imagine, if you will, that we are simply being manipulated along a certain line of thinking - yet again. Last comment: I find it surprising that people rule out the capture theory as being politically to risky. The assumption is that Bin Laden would be taken into the U.S. judicial system and given some type of trial with the ACLU supporting him. That assumption is based on things like pre-election promises to close the base at Guantanamo. Get a clue, folks.
May 6, 2011
Great! Now we have lies, damn lies, statistics, and governmental truths.
+1 Rank Up Rank Down
May 6, 2011
There is so much incentive for our gov't to tweak the truth, it's impossible to imagine that it didn't happen. If I were running any of the orgs involved, I would have commissioned full research projects on every possible capture/trial or killing/burial combination well in advance. And if I were the president, I'd have read every one in detail.

+2 Rank Up Rank Down
May 6, 2011
I am always amazed at how much can be written about what is or is not easy to do in Pakistan, by people who have probably never been there. For example people in the US assume that because every morning they get out of bed, take a shower, jump into their SUV, wave good-bye to the neighbor doing the same thing, then shuffle off to work, that is how it happens everyplace. In places with different government, and different cultures, it just might be that people don’t WANT TO KNOW who their neighbor is. The neighbor might be growing poppies or recruiting for the Taliban, or waiting and plotting to kill his mother-in-law. Best not to know; when people come asking you never know which side of the issue they are on. In that sense I agree with Scott, hiding people is not that difficult, if access is controlled. If the big O was terribly ill maybe he mostly didn’t want to ride to town for a steak dinner and laughs over wine.

On the other hand, we in the US also often believe more complicated and expensive is by definition better. For example what if the CIA located the big O by simply going to a local hospital in a small town and asking to see the list of people waiting for kidney transplants? And found the name Amaso bin Nedal, nod nod wink wink. Oh he’s the guy no one has ever seen, that is so sick he never leaves the compound. That might call to question the size of the budget for the CIA. But then again the agent who did that would be a genius if everyone else failed to do something so simple. Einstein's greatest work came from a simple question, what happens to two clocks in different parts of town when I am riding on a tram. The question was simple, the answer was perceived as genius.
May 6, 2011
I can't believe how many people think we actually killed him. If you were compiling weapons for the SEAL team to use in capturing the most wanted terrorist in history, would you only arm the SEAL team with guns, or would each member maybe be carrying tranq, tasers, etc along with their main weapons. And how many people saw him die? A couple, 3? Just presume for a minute that the CIA intended to take Osama hostage and put him in a black site to waterboard for the next 10 years. They would need to claim we had killed him as otherwise many people would know we had him. This way there could be very few people that knew. Tranq him, bag him, transfer him to the CIA. For all intensive purposes he would be dead as they could never release information he was alive so he would be killed as soon as his usefulness ran out. However, I see as much as a 1 in 5 chance of him being in a CIA black site.
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